KickBacking with Gabi Pt. 1

[00:00:00]

‍Zariah Cameron: Welcome to the KBP, the kickback podcast, and you are now a part of the official KBP crew and a part of the kickback podcast. We are really about sharing space together, sharing our stories and really having real communal conversations about design healing that invoke real and true joy. So I'm so excited for you all to listen and I hope you're able to feel release, laughter, and in all forms I hope you're able to kick back with us.

[00:00:44] Zariah Cameron: All right, let's get into it.

[00:00:50] Zariah Cameron: Okay. Hello, everyone. I'm your host, Zariah Cameron, and welcome to the Kickback podcast. And [00:01:00] I am, of course, your lovely host. And I have my very first guest with me today. Gabby Gabrielle Smith. He is. I'm so excited for you all to, um, just for her to share her story and for you to hear about it. And for us to just have this amazing conversation, um, I have been following Gabby's work for so long.

[00:01:28] Zariah Cameron: Um, and she is such an inspiration for me and I just can't wait for you all to just hear her, hear her story, hear her experience. Um, and just. Her personality is just so infectious for one. Um, and so I hope that you all feel that through, through this podcast episode. So I would say that she is, you know, um, a curious creative as she says for herself, but she is a, um, [00:02:00] she's a British Canadian creative and a cultural producer.

[00:02:05] Zariah Cameron: Um. And found somewhere between the newsroom and black Twitter and, uh, ripped to Twitter. Uh, now it's X. I don't even know how you can even, like, I don't even know how you can even, like, I don't even say X anymore. Do you say X? 

[00:02:20] Gabrielle Smith: No, I don't. I only say Twitter. 

[00:02:25] Zariah Cameron: Oh, it's so weird. Um, but I am so excited for you all to hear, uh, what will be diving in today.

[00:02:32] Zariah Cameron: Um, but she's also the founder of the new black, uh, dynamic digital platform dedicated to celebrating stories from the black diaspora through art conversation and film. We're going to dive into it a little bit and her love languages are memes and Blanton, which, uh, our life, honestly. Um, so, hey, Gabby, and welcome to our podcast.

[00:02:59] Gabrielle Smith: Thanks for [00:03:00] having me on your podcast. I'm really excited to speak with you. 

[00:03:04] Zariah Cameron: Yes, I am. I'm super excited. I'm, I feel like we haven't spoken in, in so long, like, I feel like going off of social media really feels like you just, That's cut off from the rest of the world, but I'm glad that we can connect now.

[00:03:20] Zariah Cameron: And, um, first I just want to know, like, how are you doing? How is life? Like, um, how have you been doing over this time? And, um, just tell me a little bit about just how you are. I think that's, that's first and foremost. 

[00:03:36] Gabrielle Smith: Yeah, no, I'm good. It's been really, really hot in the UK over the past week, so I'm just like taking in the, uh, just trying to keep cool, mostly.

[00:03:44] Gabrielle Smith: But other than that, yeah, no, I'm good. I've had a lot of, uh, time to think about what I want to do next and also, like, take a look back at what I have done and figure out what is kind of next. But I'm spending my time with it, so I'm not like rushing myself, so it [00:04:00] feels kind of good to just take inspiration from whatever I'm seeing, whatever's around me.

[00:04:05] Gabrielle Smith: Um, so yeah, that's where I am at the moment. 

[00:04:08] Zariah Cameron: As I feel like that's the people that I've spoken to that's I feel like that's how we are have been like collectively, like I've been hearing that a lot that's how I feel for sure. Um, the heat, I feel like doesn't make it any better, either. 

[00:04:22] Gabrielle Smith: I've been eating frozen watermelon so that's the one thing that has like, cool me down.

[00:04:34] Gabrielle Smith: It's 

[00:04:34] Zariah Cameron: hot all around, like it's it's actually. Yeah. Ridiculous. I'm just like, I'm supposed to be going out the country, uh, next week. And I'm, and I'm like, Oh, it's not gonna be bad. Like, it's going to be cool. Everything's going to be, I'm looking at the weather. I'm like, why is it 87 degrees?

[00:04:56] Zariah Cameron: But yeah, I feel like we're all like in that collective moment. And I want to like, [00:05:00] probably, we're probably going to dive into that in our conversation today, but just about that element of like healing and like all these different things that The space that we're in currently now and like how that's contributing or affecting to the work that we do or just what we want to put out.

[00:05:17] Zariah Cameron: But first, I want to kind of dive into some like fun questions, which I'm going to ask all of my guests. But being that this is the kickback podcast, I think it would be only fitting to start off with some kickback questions. What is your go to? What has been, or what was, like, your go to kickback fit? 

[00:05:43] Gabrielle Smith: Um, I would say, since the pandemic, it's been Crocs.

[00:05:51] Gabrielle Smith: It's been Crocs. I feel like, I don't know, I feel like I've always thought about, like, what's the most comfortable that I can be anywhere without it being, like, [00:06:00] me wearing. uh, house shoes to an event and I feel like Crocs are a reasonable, Crocs are a reasonable trade off. I was very sceptical initially about Crocs, I was like oh my god they're so ugly and then I wore them and I was just like wow my life has significantly been changed.

[00:06:15] Gabrielle Smith: So I'll not be wearing, I'll be like, not be wearing, I saw this really funny, um, Instagram reel and this guy was like, you'll buy a pair of Crocs and you'll think that you're going to be not wearing them everywhere but you will, you will, you will be wearing them to inappropriate places and I was like, yeah, I'm that person, I will wear Crocs everywhere, so yeah.

[00:06:32] Gabrielle Smith: Crocs, something comfortable, um, I'm really into prints and patterns so probably something, like an award, something comfortable. Yeah. Probably Crocs. 

[00:06:44] Zariah Cameron: You feel like, you feel like you've always kind of been that way, outside of the Crocs, because I've not become a Crocs person yet, 

[00:06:50] Gabrielle Smith: like. Do it, you'll be converted instantly.

[00:06:53] Gabrielle Smith: It's like, the comfortness, the comfortability of a Croc, like, outweighs how ugly the shoe is, that's how comfortable, [00:07:00] that's how comfortable a Croc is. Um, yeah, have I always been to prints and patterns? Yeah, I think I have. I think, also, I'm a designer, so I feel it's like, uh. Yeah, natural. Yeah, a creative thing also.

[00:07:13] Gabrielle Smith: But yeah, I'm into graphic prints. All my wardrobe is predominantly prints. I don't have, I don't wear a lot of like block colors and if I do I feel really kind of weird about it. Um, but yeah, I'm really into prints and patterns. So I feel like I've um, I'm always looking for this like interesting fabrics, um, but yeah, anything graphic prints, I'm really, really into.

[00:07:34] Gabrielle Smith: Yeah, that, 

[00:07:35] Zariah Cameron: I mean, I've seen that just within your style, like over the last, like, couple of years, like, just how that's incorporating, but yeah, definitely see that it's more of like a creative thing, like creative expression, because I feel the same, the exact same way. So this is also something that someone brought up to me because like, when I was starting this podcast, like, Different people had different [00:08:00] meanings of or different thoughts of like what a kickback was like they had various different sort of perspectives.

[00:08:07] Zariah Cameron: And so I'm all I'm curious like, how would you personally define a 

[00:08:13] Gabrielle Smith: kickback? Um, I think in the UK, I don't know what we call it in the UK, do we call them kickbacks in the UK? I'm not sure. But I feel like I would define a kickback as maybe something that is like whatever level if party is like at one level then kickback is like just below like a party party it's more like a chilled vibe it could eventually transition into a party but it's more like i'm coming around we're hanging out it's pretty chill but it could it could have elements of like excitement and hypeness to it but yeah 

[00:08:48] Zariah Cameron: yeah i kind of feel the same way i've gotten various different like responses and it's very fascinating okay so I feel like you, just being, you know, when I was [00:09:00] on Instagram, like, and hearing, like, your music choices, like, I am very curious, like, what's a song or, you know, music, like, you would play during the kickback, if you had the 

[00:09:11] Gabrielle Smith: aux?

[00:09:12] Gabrielle Smith: I was thinking about this. I would play, um, Kate Renard's remix of, um, Cranes in the Sky and, and Be Your Girl too. I just love those. There's something very unique about both of those. So I think I would probably do like some Keiichinada and remixes. That's what my musical contribution is. 

[00:09:38] Zariah Cameron: No, that sounds really good.

[00:09:39] Zariah Cameron: Yeah, we're definitely gonna have to add a playlist for sure. Um, and then lastly, like what's your most memorable kickback experience? Do you have one? 

[00:09:50] Gabrielle Smith: I feel like my memory of kickbacks and hanging out with people has vastly changed since the pandemic. Although I feel like my most I don't know, would I describe it as [00:10:00] kickback?

[00:10:00] Gabrielle Smith: Um, I went to New York recently, well earlier this year, um, and I literally like the, maybe like three or four hours after I'd landed, I went to hang out with a friend of mine who I hadn't seen for almost like eight or nine years, and it was just like really cool, we just chilled, listened to music, ate food, um, was talking for a really long time, there was like music, so it was just really, really cool, so I feel like that was, that has been like a cool memory.

[00:10:28] Gabrielle Smith: Um, and then also during the pandemic, I was, um, I had been having these like virtual hangouts with friends of mine from different parts of the world. And that was just cool for us to like catch up. Yeah, that's nice. Yeah. We kind of like continued it. Um, but it was a cool opportunity for people who I know.

[00:10:49] Gabrielle Smith: Some of them knew each other and some of them didn't. So it was just a cool opportunity for us to get together on like a quarterly basis and like event, talk, [00:11:00] support each other, see what people are up to. So that was a fun, I think those two would probably be my most memorable moments. 

[00:11:08] Zariah Cameron: I feel like sometimes people feel like you have to, like, go out and do something so extravagant or so extreme, but a lot of times, like, those best moments or memories are like very intimate.

[00:11:20] Gabrielle Smith: Yeah, I think, yeah, I think definitely like, uh, uh, my parents used to have things that they kickbacks kind of not necessarily games nights, but they used to have like people around. And I think it's definitely like, uh, it is a skill. Yeah. Um, but I think it's also about like, knowing which people will like connect with each other and like setting the mood knowing which people we like the fun people the chill people the like, ask the questions that will get people thinking so I think it's kind of like, it's kind of like a punch bowl where you put all the ingredients in you're like oh yeah this is cool but you know [00:12:00] who to invite.

[00:12:01] Gabrielle Smith: Yeah, make it like a nice. Like in my situation for everybody, I think. 

[00:12:08] Zariah Cameron: Yeah, I feel like finding the right group of people, like the good mix, it's so, it's a science. 

[00:12:14] Gabrielle Smith: Yeah, no, definitely. It definitely, definitely is. But I think like generally, if people are respectful, yeah, core theme, then I think it's kind of like, it allows for there to be like, people who have different energies, because everyone is not going to be like extremely hype or extremely chill.

[00:12:29] Gabrielle Smith: But if you get the right mix of people, I think it kind of makes yeah, balances. Yeah, I think so. 

[00:12:35] Zariah Cameron: Definitely. That kind of flows into like, sort of this element of joy and sort of healing as we're moving into that conversation of like, what's brought you the most joy recently? 

[00:12:49] Gabrielle Smith: What's brought me the most joy recently?

[00:12:53] Gabrielle Smith: I think it's just like sharing jokes with friends. [00:13:00] I think that's something that's, um, brought me the most joy recently. It's like seeing something funny and then talking to my friends about it and then it's like building on the funny and then I think that's like, um, the one thing that has brought me joy recently, definitely.

[00:13:17] Zariah Cameron: I feel like, like, I, I probably will keep mentioning over and over again, like your memes and like things that you used to post on Instagram used to bring me so much joy and laughter during the day, like, yeah, yeah, I, it would, oh my gosh, I would make sure that as soon as you post the long stream of posts, I was ready, like, I was ready 

[00:13:40] Gabrielle Smith: to break.

[00:13:40] Gabrielle Smith: I feel like I was like. I don't know. I didn't get self conscious, but I'm just like, wow, I really spent a lot of time. I was like, I really spent a lot of time on the internet. Everyone's like, oh my God, how do you find so many things? I was like, I'm really on the internet, like a lot. So I think, um, I also took a break.

[00:13:55] Gabrielle Smith: I took maybe like a month, two months off. Um, [00:14:00] so I started doing it again, but it's like not weekly. It's just whenever I kind of like have the energy to keep it shorter. But sometimes it's difficult to know which, sometimes I'm like, yeah, do you know what, I'm just going to post 10 and then it's like 25, 25 posts later I'm just like, wow, this is really embarrassing.

[00:14:19] Gabrielle Smith: I just enjoy it. I really enjoy, I enjoy finding funny things and sharing them and like finding interesting and random things. So I feel like, um, I've gotten good at like selecting. moments and things to share and, um, sometimes it's just like a reflection of what my mood is. Yeah. Um, sometimes it's like I'm bored and I'm like posting things like none of the stuff is ever related.

[00:14:48] Gabrielle Smith: I try to do themes and then I'm just like, oh no, this doesn't match. So I'm just like, it just all, it all goes together. But yeah, I do enjoy doing it. Um, but sometimes, yeah, it definitely makes me think I [00:15:00] should spend less time. I should spend less time on the internet. But I feel 

[00:15:04] Zariah Cameron: like, I feel like there, you say there's no theme, but I feel like there definitely feels like a theme like, yeah, yeah, I feel like it connects to, um, sort of the archival of things.

[00:15:18] Zariah Cameron: Yeah, I 

[00:15:19] Gabrielle Smith: think I do like archive. Black joy is another big thing. I do have, you know, Instagram now you can save things in folders. I have like folders. Like 50 million different folders I say things in, but like my main ones are like Black Joy, Love Is, like Inspiration. So I think those are my main folders and stuff that I say things.

[00:15:42] Gabrielle Smith: So when I get to share them, then I'm like, okay, cool. I'll share this one. This one's funny. This one's I try to mix it up a little bit. 

[00:15:49] Zariah Cameron: Do you think it helps you like with Like spark any creative like expression through those, like, is there some type of parallel or connection to that? Yeah, 

[00:15:58] Gabrielle Smith: I think [00:16:00] sometimes I feel like, um, I remember there was this video of black men receiving flowers for the first time.

[00:16:08] Gabrielle Smith: I was like, wow, this is so, it's so interesting, but it just sparked a conversation between me and a friend of mine about like, If I were to do something like this or if I use this as a starting point, how would I kind of like expand off that and I think that's like a lot of projects I've kind of worked on it has kind of been inspired by like a piece of artwork that I've seen a conversation.

[00:16:29] Gabrielle Smith: I'm wanting to explore further what that would mean to. Make it more of a conversation or expand on like why seeing a video of men receiving flowers It wasn't so much them receiving it, but it was like the reactions to it. And I guess all the conversations about like masculinity and vulnerability Like their reactions and how surprised they were kind of like what why am I receiving flowers?

[00:16:53] Gabrielle Smith: I think that was the thing that made it quite poignant to me and thinking oh, yeah Men don't really [00:17:00] give each other flowers like that, even though they absolutely deserve them. I think there's like Rules and structures around like yeah, appreciate how to appreciate men versus how to appreciate women I'm not and I think they were all really like grateful to receive them but kind of felt like they didn't deserve them But I think that was like another point of conversation for me to think.

[00:17:19] Gabrielle Smith: Oh, why is this? Like, such a surprising thing, like, why is this such a, why is it so poignant and what more could be said about it and how could it be explored in a way? Yeah, 

[00:17:29] Zariah Cameron: it sort of brings to light, like, it brings almost an awareness to certain issues and kind of allows you to uncover things beyond just that video.

[00:17:40] Gabrielle Smith: And I think it was also like a nice way to do it, rather than like, 70 percent of men say it will unlove them, so we're going to give them flowers to prove that 21 percent of single parent, it's like, okay, cool, we're just, we're just going to appreciate you, we're not going to make it like, and I have, I don't, not to be, not to be frivolous, everything can't be [00:18:00] frivolous, but I think sometimes there's something nice about being like, cool, we're just going to do this nice appreciation, it's not going to be, particularly deep and there's not going to be any like scientific reasoning, or I think sometimes, um, I don't know, there's kind of like, there can be, and rightly so, historically, culturally, there can kind of be like a heaviness to blackness and I think sometimes the joy is, I think the joy is equally as important as sometimes the heaviness.

[00:18:30] Gabrielle Smith: Yeah, and what it means specifically. So I think doing those things without necessarily having something like academic or they're being yeah, I think people kind of like, um, when those things are done, people understand that they're not being done. So they just do them without there being like a big thing around it.

[00:18:48] Gabrielle Smith: So I think that's what, um, That's how I felt when I watched it. 

[00:18:53] Zariah Cameron: Yeah, it, it, no, but it's exhausting. I think that level of like, everything, everything [00:19:00] nowadays, especially talking about like the Black experience just feels so heavy. Like, and to the point where I'm just like, I don't even want to look at anything.

[00:19:09] Zariah Cameron: Like, you know, and that's when like those videos or like photos or memes, like they pop up there, just so simple and so subtle. are just such a breath of life, like, for me. Definitely. Um, oh, this is so good. I, I, I really just, you kind of already touched on it, but like, in what ways have, has your design, you know, felt therapeutic and like healing for you?

[00:19:43] Gabrielle Smith: Um, I think when I think about the work that I do, my day job is. It can, it can be quite heavy. I think I've always tried to find projects outside of work that kind of like counterbalance the work I do inside work [00:20:00] just to give me an opportunity to kind of like, um, feel a bit more free in some kind of way.

[00:20:08] Gabrielle Smith: Some of the personal projects I've done like work with friends and. Um, specifically, I think being intentional about the types of work that I kind of like take on, I think has been healing for me and then also like my platform, The New Black, um, I started it a really, really long time ago. Um, and it was primarily out of, um, kind of out of frustration.

[00:20:31] Gabrielle Smith: I feel like this is a common thread with every single, every single Black person that's ever created. Like, when I was a kid, someone told me I couldn't do something. So then I decided to create this thing. And now it's like, yeah. You're so right about that. Or it's just like something horrible happened to me.

[00:20:47] Gabrielle Smith: And I went into the store and I didn't see myself represented. And it's not like, it's not funny, but I feel like it's very apparent when you speak to people about the reasons why Black people. start things is because they [00:21:00] notice that somebody, they notice that something is missing, um, and there isn't a place for the things that they see that are missing to exist so they create those things.

[00:21:08] Gabrielle Smith: I feel that was very much my kind of, um, foray into starting this blog and kind of, um, celebrating UK Black History Month and seeing how like, um, US centric it was and also that it was primarily focused on, it wasn't necessarily focused on like the impact of black creatives. UK Yeah. Um, so yeah, I started this blog just highlighting black creatives and it kind of like grew from there.

[00:21:36] Gabrielle Smith: Um, and just, and I think, I don't think I realized how healing it was until I stopped doing it. Mm-Hmm. . Um, and then had an opportunity to look back at it. And I was like, oh, well I really like built this thing. I didn't, the intention for me was not to build a huge thing. It was just like, cool, let me interview some people and see what happens.

[00:21:53] Gabrielle Smith: And then it kind of like, um. Uh, it kind of grew from there, but yeah, I definitely feel like it [00:22:00] meant still means it meant something to the people who, uh, featured in it, um, and meant P meant a lot to people who interacted with me and the platform too, which I don't think I really, um, I don't think I really.

[00:22:15] Gabrielle Smith: I didn't realize that until I kind of like met people and they were saying like how much it kind of like helped them and all those such things I think it was like a by chance thing where I started that. Yeah, I think that's probably been the most healing thing that I've done for myself. Yeah, 

[00:22:32] Zariah Cameron: I Of course, like I was not old enough to be a part of the beautiful air that the new black was I feel like when I discovered you like you'd kind of definitely transition into more of the archival PM of the new black.

[00:22:50] Zariah Cameron: Yeah, but Just seeing like I was able to kind of look at some of the past things that you had done and it was just like amazing. What do [00:23:00] you think you were able to curate through those experiences of the new 

[00:23:03] Gabrielle Smith: black? Uh, I think, I think just that I know people always say it's like blackness really isn't a monolith.

[00:23:13] Gabrielle Smith: And I think the new black I kind of like, um, there's no one way to be black. And they were like, this is more black than this. And I think that was kind of. The undercurrent of what the new black is, there's just like so much, so much on there. Where it all fits under this one thing. And I think it was kind of like, me not saying, Do you think this thing is black?

[00:23:37] Gabrielle Smith: But I was kind of like, Oh, let me speak to black people about what does their blackness look like to them and let them speak. Letting it, um, speak for itself and letting the people who I interviewed be like the voice of the platform rather than me kind of like dictating to people. I guess in some kind of way it is essentially my [00:24:00] 5011 Instagram post but in a blog, in a blog, in a blog form.

[00:24:04] Gabrielle Smith: Um, But yeah, this was like way before Instagram. Um, and I think generally, I think now I speak to people who I've like known during that time, like early, like late 2000s, what the internet was for black people around that time and how different it is to now. And how people are now speaking about like going back to that.

[00:24:26] Gabrielle Smith: portion of the internet where it was just like a little bit more explorative, people were not, um, it wasn't, I mean there were influencers, but it wasn't as influencer driven, um, it seemed a bit more like, not necessarily innocent, but there was just a different feel to the internet and the community on the internet, um, so I think that period of time, I think the new black is marked very much by that, that period of time, I think.

[00:24:50] Gabrielle Smith: Yeah. 

[00:24:51] Zariah Cameron: Yeah, I mean you're calling out something of like how it is now of like things are just, you don't really know what's real and what's, what's fake and like you're [00:25:00] constantly consuming all of this information and things that ultimately really aren't, it's a fabrication of people's lives and I feel like You know, probably what late early 2000s.

[00:25:14] Zariah Cameron: It was very raw, real people kind of just sharing their experiences. I mean, you know, blogging was such a really big thing, like early 2000s. And, um, I, I had blogged for a little while. And of course, like you saw it sort of dwindle once. You know, Instagram really like popped off, but I feel like we lost a lot of like that realness and community once sort of this influencer phase and you could start to make money and monetize everything on the internet happened.

[00:25:50] Zariah Cameron: Yeah, 

[00:25:50] Gabrielle Smith: I think, definitely, I feel like, think of it as eras. I don't really feel like, yeah, era. I feel like [00:26:00] 2015, 2016 was like the point at which things kind of changed. I feel like they serve, but every, all, all of these like eras serve a purpose. Um, I just think it was definitely like the explorative feel of, I think like blogging and people figuring things out and figuring out how to do hashtags and figuring stuff out that way.

[00:26:28] Gabrielle Smith: It felt a bit more. It's felt different than I think 

[00:26:32] Zariah Cameron: it is now. Do you think this era still, you said this era still serves a purpose, like what do you think is kind of healing for you? Like, is there still some element of, of like realness and like rawness that you still see within this 

[00:26:44] Gabrielle Smith: space? Yeah, I think so.

[00:26:46] Gabrielle Smith: It feels like people are trying to go back to the era previous in terms of like vulnerability and things not necessarily having to be so perfect. I think that's an element that I do [00:27:00] like, appreciate about that people are trying to like, not feel like they have to post every day or post monochromatic.

[00:27:07] Gabrielle Smith: Making sure all their grids are perfect and it's just more like cool. I saw this thing. I'm sharing it It doesn't matter if it matches with anything anything else. I do. I do definitely like that for sure 

[00:27:18] Zariah Cameron: Yeah, there was an era of everything being very monochromatic 

[00:27:23] Gabrielle Smith: It's so I really I think that's the one thing that I like appreciate about people who do that consistently It looks so easy, but it's really hard.

[00:27:31] Gabrielle Smith: Oh, yeah planning and a lot of Um, thought and I don't have the. So much dedication. Yeah, no, definitely. I definitely appreciate that for sure.

[00:27:44] Zariah Cameron: Go to part two to listen to the last part of this podcast conversation. Hope you enjoy.

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